Monti Hall interviews Marvin X for MSW project

Introduction


Some people dropped out of the rat race many years ago and never reentered the so called ordinary. One such person is Marvin X (née Marvin Ellis Jackmon, born May 29,1944 ), 74-year-old African American male poet, playwright, essayist,  educator, publisher, entrepreneur, director, and lecturer.

This paper will examine Marvin’s life and work based on two personal interviews (conducted November 4, 2018 and November 17, 2018). It will focus on Marvin’s experience as a child and adult and how they influence his current beliefs and behaviors. A large focus of Marvin’s interviews related to race due to his experiences growing up and the influence of the black power movement on his ideology. Marvin X encouraged the use of his name to help promote his books. While discussing Marvin X’s life history and development, this paper will explore multiple theories, including: Conflict Theory; Critical Race Theory; Intersectionality; and Social Learning Theory. With an aging population it is important for the social worker to be able to understand these various theories.  Being able to identify intersectionality issues can be important in dealing with diverse groups, such as a Native American woman in looking for a job, as an example.  Each theory will be explained and the experiences and viewpoints of Marvin X will be incorporated.

Narrative

Some of Marvin X’s earliest memories are of  sitting and watching his parents put together a newspaper they published in Fresno, California during the 1950s. The Fresno Voice was the only Black newspaper in the area at the time. Marvin X was born in Fowler CA, nine miles south of Fresno in the central valley of California. Back then many African Americans worked in grape vineyards and cotton fields throughout the valley.

His parents were, “woke and conscious of Black Nationalism in the Marcus Garvey way” (X, personal communication, November 17, 2018).  He shares one personal story about his dog.  The family moved back and forth from Fresno to Oakland. On one of these moves from Oakland to Fresno, his dog ran away upon arrival in Fresno. He wrote about his dog in the Aunt Elsie's Children Section of the Oakland Tribune..  Marvin has not had a dog since then for fear it might run away.

The family lived on the west side of Fresno in an all black community.  “Whether they were the principal or postman, if they were black, they lived in the projects” (X, personal communication, November 17, 2018).  Fresno was an agricultural town and Marvin X worked the fields, as did his great grandfather, grandparents, mother, uncles and most black people cutting grapes picking and  chopping cotton.  He remembers this as his earliest hustle.

When living in Oakland, his family resided in West Oakland on 7th Street, where they operated a florist shop across from the Lincoln Theatre, a black theatre.  According to Marvin X, Oakland was Harlem of the West coast.  Segregated communities were the ordinary during the 1940s and 1950s. California had economic barriers along with other racial boundaries. Marvin X uses the example of offering only houses within these boundaries for sale to people of color. This practice is illegal now and called Red Lining.  His mother sold many homes to people of color in west Fresno.  Marvin X witnessed this firsthand during his teen years at his mother’s real estate office.

While the Brown Vs. The Board of Education Supreme Court decision called for integrated schools, it is still a segregated society.  The schools were community based and busing out of an area was still almost 20 years away in Fresno. Marvin attended all black schools including graduating from Edison High School. For decades this school produced most black graduates in Fresno. 

In 1967, under the influence of Elijah Muhammad, Marvin became a Black Muslim and has published since then under the names El Muhajir and Marvin X. His recent books include Land of My Daughters: Poems, Wish I Could Tell You the Truth: Essays, et al. Marvin X would go on to say that Elijah Muhammad was the most influential person in his life.

Marvin attended Oakland’s Merritt College where he encountered fellow students who became Black Panther Party co-founders Bobby Seale and Huey Newton. They extended his black nationalism.

Marvin’s first play, Flowers for the Trashman, was produced by the Drama department at San Francisco State University, 1965.  He dropped out to establish his own Black Arts West Theatre in the Fillmore, 1966, along with playwright Ed Bullins. Months later Marvin co-founded the political/cultural center called Black House with Eldridge Cleaver, 1967.

Marvin introduced Eldridge Cleaver to Huey Newton and Bobby Seale.  Eldridge immediately joined the Black Panther Party.  Huey Newton said, “Marvin X was my teacher, many of our comrades came from his Black Arts Theatre: Bobby Seale, Eldridge Cleaver, Emory Douglas and Samuel Napier.” Eldridge Cleaver remained a close friend of Marvin X until his death.

One of the movers and shakers of the Black Arts Movement (BAM) Marvin X has published 30 books, including essays, poetry, and his autobiography Somethin’ Proper. Important books include Fly to Allah, poems, Beyond Religion, toward Spirituality, essays on consciousness, and How to Recover from the Addiction to White Supremacy, a manual based on the 12 step Recovery model.

Marvin received his MA in English/Creative writing from San Francisco State University, 1975. He has taught at San Francisco State University, Fresno State University, UC Berkeley and San Diego, Mills College, Merritt and Laney Colleges in Oakland, University of Nevada, Reno.  He lectures coast to coast at such colleges and universities as University of Arkansas, University of Houston, Morehouse and Spelman, Atlanta, University of Virginia, Howard University, University of Pennsylvania, Temple University, Medgar Evers College in Brooklyn, University of Massachusetts.  According to Marvin X, his lectures often  end with him being, “usually escorted out, snatched the mike or arrested” (X, personal communication, November 17, 2018). His style fires up a crowd.

His latest book is the Wisdom of Plato Negro, parables/fables, Black Bird Press, Berkeley. He currently teaches at his Academy of da Corner, 14th and Broadway, downtown Oakland. This interview took place at his alternate location on Lakeshore Drive near Lake Merritt in Oakland. On this day a representative of the Nation of Islam along with a college student were hanging around Marvin X’s Academy. It is recommended that each visitor bring his own chair, but there are donated ones available.  The Master Teacher provided me a seat at the table. Class was in session as others stopped by and lingered talking.

His most popular publication is a booklet named Mythology of Pussy and Dick. This publication explores the power of women and tells men they cannot own women as chattel property.  Marvin X poses this as fundamental to manhood and womanhood training. Ishmael Reed says, “Marvin X is Plato teaching on the streets of Oakland."

Theoretical Analysis

There are a few key theories related to Marvin X’s life and development: conflict theory, critical race theory, intersectionality, and social learning theory. While none of these theories applies perfectly to Marvin X’s life, taken together they offer a holistic analysis of Marvin X’s lifetime development.

Conflict Theory

Marvin X belief that the world is in constant conflict fits Conflict Theory.  There is much conflict within the world of Marvin X and race matters are at the forefront. This is a continuous and often contentious issue that has dominated the poet's life since his earliest memories. Marvin believes that anything short of separating the races is unacceptable. White people or as he calls them white devils, cannot help themselves with being evil. White people are inherently seeking power over people of color.  This is the same as some groups holding power over others, which is a pillar of conflict theory.  It starts with economic power, people are needed as labor, always have been.

Struggle against the oppressor is a common theme in Marvin X’s life and writings.  Marvin X tells the story of how he was ordered removed from the campus of California State University, Fresno, 1969.  He was invited and hired to lecture in the Black Studies Department the Black Student Union. His four classes with seventy students was approved by the administration of Fresno State until Governor Ronald Reagan demanded his contract  voided by the Board of  Trustees of California State Colleges. Governor Regan considered Marvin X too radical when it was discovered he had refused to fight in Vietnam.  Student protests  started and the Fresno Superior issued a restraining order that forbid Marvin X from stepping on the campus. When FSU refused to pay his salary, the California Professors Union donated his salary. He continued his classes across the street from the college/now university, at the Christian Student Center and gave final grades to his seventy students. Student protests continued with the burning down  of the computer center by one of his star students who was sentenced to the California Youth Authority. Students from throughout California, calling themselves the United Black Students of California, mainly from Los Angeles colleges and universities supported his fight to teach at FSU and his draft trial in San Francisco Federal Court. This was one major conflict  that Marvin X experienced throughout his life. Power being exerted over people without power.

Marvin X was violently attacked by his girlfriend 3 or 4 years ago.  This incident lead to Marvin X losing eyesight in his left eye.  He explained that this was a continuation of domestic violence.  Marvin X was upset that the District Attorney decided not to press charges due to his own prior acts. This was just another example of Law Enforcement not being fair to him in the criminal justice system.

The 1948 Arab – Israeli war between Israel and five of its Arab neighbors stands out as a significant event for Marvin X.  At the age of 4 years old, Marvin still vividly remembers watching refugees streaming across the borders fleeing the Israelis.  This conflict served as an instrumental influence on Marvin X’s worldview that he maintains to this day.  He believes strongly that the Israelis are white devil and the source of the conflict.  They are suppressing and oppressing the Palestinian people, in Marvin X’s view.  This is compounded by the United States being the primary backer of the Israeli government.  Nothing short of complete cut off of American aid and support would satisfy Marvin X with his all or nothing attitude.

This leads to one of the flaws of conflict theory as it relates to Marvin X. Minority groups in conflict theory are defined in economic terms. Less weight is given for color of one’s skin. Conflict theory also doesn’t do much with issues related to identity and sexual orientation. Minority groups whether race/ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation are almost always economically defined. Conflict theory doesn't often explain very well why people work together and cooperate. Most people go to work not just because their bosses force them to, but because there's a mutually beneficial relationship between workers and their employers - or even (for the lucky few) because they obtain some intrinsic enjoyment from the work they do.

Critical Race Theory

There are six fundamental propositions in Critical Race Theory as laid out by the influential Derrick Bell.  Many call Derrick Bell the founder of Critical Race Theory. This theory believes that the Civil Rights Movement did not go far enough because racism is embedded in the fiber of American life. According to the New York Times obituary Derrick Bell saw Critical Race Theory as “a body of legal scholarship that explored how racism is embedded in laws and legal institutions, even many of those intended to redress past injustices” (Bernstein, 2011)  The six fundamental propositions are: (1) There is endemic racism; (2) Race is a social construction; (3) Differential racialization; (4) Interest convergence/materialist determinism; (5) Voices of Color; (6) Antiessentialism/intersectionality.

Critical Race Theory is closest to Marvin X’s lifetime experiences. He lives in a world that is defined by race with the struggle ongoing. Racism is the norm in society according to the theory.
This paper will explore a few of them. First number one, followed by two and four. Intersectionality will crossover into an additional theory explanation.

Strengths in propositions one, two and four.

Proposition 1 states there is endemic racism.  Racism is embedded in the fabric of our society, it is the normal.  There is nothing unusual about racism. The current system of whites over people of color provides the framework for important societal functions. Whites will do whatever it takes to maintain the status quo. Marvin X speaks openly about being addicted to crack, which be says was brought into black neighborhoods by the CIA in 1984. Crack became his total desire, “Fuck teaching, fuck religion” (X, personal communication, November 17, 2018).  The crack epidemic hit the black community hard, by design, according to Marvin X. The courts were full, new prisons were built and law enforcement prospers financially to this day.

Proposition 2 is Racial construction. According to this proposition, race is not biologically based; it is invented and manufactured. The American system has taken racism to an industrial level being the root of conflict. Marvin X has a fable where a black bird sits in his cage with the door open. The white master does not worry about the black bird flying away. Other birds of all types would fly in and encourage the black bird to fly away to freedom. The black bird was happy in his cage. One day there was a fire and the house was burning down. The white master fled and left the black bird. The black bird just sat in his cage waiting for his white master to return. As the fire spread the black bird refused to fly away. Just then another bird flew through the fire and yelled at the black bird to fly away. The black bird said he loved his cage. The other bird said you want to die, come with me my brother. The black bird flew away and yelled bye master as he flew past his master (X, 1972). This is an example of the black man being conditioned to stay enslaved by white power.

Proposition 4 is Interest convergence/materialist determinism. This proposition expresses that working-class whites benefit from racism psychically (feel good about themselves because at least they aren’t black), and elite whites are advantaged materially (economic exploitation of an underclass), so a large segment of society (all whites) benefit from the current racial order.
While in class at Academy of  da corner, we observed a middle-aged white male approach the table. He had his teenage daughter by his side. She was dressed in soccer attire and he was wearing athletic gear. Marvin X encouraged the man to check out a variety of books. The girl was hovering around a copy of Mythology of Pussy. At least he’s trying,  was the attitude Marvin X exhibited, (X, personal communication, November 17, 2018). Marvin X then offered a small collection of books for $20.00 and the man handed over his credit card.  He pulled the card out of his pocket as he did not have his wallet which supported his statement that he had no cash on him.  Marvin X has a smart phone application that allows him to take donations from plastic.  The application was not working but Marvin X kept trying. The man stated that he needed to pick up something from the pharmacy a few steps away.  He left his card and headed to the pharmacy.  After a few minutes he returned for his card and his books. There was a look of disappoint on both the man and the teenager's face.  This is an example of the white bourgeoisie attempting to feel superior to the man of color. Like, "Nigger, why can't you get your shit together?"

A glaring weakness in Critical Race Theory is that it says that blacks, African Americans, will never fare well in America. By declaring that the Civil Rights Movement does not go far enough leaves little room for compromise on big issues dealing with race. And while slavery is over, a racist society continues to exert dominion over black men and their maleness in ways more subtle but hardly less castrating than during slavery.

Intersectionality

While Intersectionality is the sixth fundamental proposition of Critical Race Theory, it is also its own stand-alone theory.  Critical Race Theory accepts the intersectionality of oppressions of all types. This suggests that a primary focus will distort the effects of other forms of exclusion.  Intersectionality is a crucial tenet in Critical Race Theory because it shows the different types of oppression which are faced by people of color.   There are many different types of discrimination, including things like discrimination based on sex, gender, culture, race and other factors. We can often consider these things in isolation. But what happens when someone experiences multiple forms of discrimination at the same time? What happens when we have overlapping areas of discrimination? One of the things that can happen is that we can have individuals in our society that have characteristics that can result in them facing discrimination in multiple different areas. For example, we can view one of Marvin X’s daughters, Amira, a female who is of African American origin, and who attended Yale undergrad (Giambrone, 2012) and Stanford Law. She attended school in a particular part of our country that may cause her to be discriminated against in three different areas. So, if we were to draw her circles of discrimination, what would her overlap look like? She may have one overlap based on her sexual gender. She may have one overlap based on her racial or cultural identification, and she may have another circle based on her education. Right in the center, we have this level of extreme overlap. Now, why is it important to consider this intersection of these three different areas? It's important because at this intersection is multiple different categories of potential discrimination or oppression that may compound an interplay in this one individual, and really significantly put her at a disadvantage within society. In order to understand the level of disadvantage that she has, we really need to understand all three of these factors. The theory of intersectionality really states just that. It focuses on the point in which these multiple different areas of potential discrimination overlap with one another, and exist alongside one another.

We really need to understand when all of these things coexist, because if we don't consider all of them at the same time, we really don't get to fully understand the situation. So, in this individual, if we just consider the fact that she likes Buddhist teachings, in a culture or society that really doesn't appreciate that, and we miss the fact that the society also doesn't appreciate the fact that she's female, or discriminates against African Americans, we may not fully understand the level of discrimination that she faces. And the same situation would result if we only considered the fact that she was female in a sexist society, or that she was African American in a racist society. So, this theory of intersectionality really asks us to consider all of the different levels of discrimination. While the theory was originally coined in 1989 by Crenshaw as a feminist theory to explain the oppression of women, it has since really expanded. People use it to explain oppression and discrimination in all of society.

A flaw with Intersectionality is the declining significance of race in dealing with economic advancement. There are new opportunities for Blacks as barriers to employment are reduced. Some remain and we must stay vigilant in the fight against discrimination of all types. William Julius Wilson pointed this out in his book, The Truly Disadvantaged (Wilson, 2012). Barriers are falling and people are more aware of discrimination.

Social Learning Theory

The thought to include Social Learning Theory came from a fellow student and allows the paper to track Marvin X’s education directly. Social Learning Theory is a theory of social behavior and learning that believes new behaviors can be acquired by observing and learning from others. It offers a better explanation of learning than behaviorism. Experience is a great teacher, but we learn by seeing the world.  We learn from watching others successes and failures. Social Learning Theory goes further and lays out human development. This theory explains how the cycle of family violence repeats itself. The child who sees his father beat his mother has a high percentage without intervention to beat his wife (Social Learning Theory | Sociology | Chegg Tutors, 2016). This theory draws heavily from the work of Albert Bandura’s in the 1960s.  Whit whom do we learn from and in what environment is a question that has plagued American education. Derrick Bell once wrote, “In light of the often-violent struggle that resulted from the Supreme Court’s 1954 desegregation decision, Brown v. Board of Education, things might have worked out better if the court had instead ordered that both races be provided with truly equivalent schools” (Bernstein, 2011).

When Marvin X was in high school, he had a white female English teacher.  At some point Marvin X let her know that his goal in life was to be a writer. She offered the advice that in order to be a great writer, you have to read.  Now she did not tell him what to read, just to read and read some more.  Reading the classics including Shakespeare became Marvin X’s obsession. This led to a greater appreciation of written works.   He was turned onto James Baldwin’s writing by a fellow student, a Hispanic brother He introduced Marvin X to Giovanni’s Room (Baldwin, 2001). While the subject matter was not of interest, the style inspired Marvin X to read other Baldwin writings, especially Notes of A Native Son,The Five Next Time, Go Tell it on the Mountain and The Amen Corner. In 1968 he interviewed Baldwin at his New York apartment.

Attending segregated schools had a lifelong impact on Marvin X. With a gift for writing and  public speaking, it was evident from an early age that Marvin X was going to do big things. It was said according to Marvin X, that he spoke just like his father, a businessman, social activist, both parents were members of the NAACP.  According to Oakland Post Newspaper Publisher, Paul Cobb, Marvin's father attending Garveyite meetings at Paul's grandfather's house in West Oakland.

The influence of having all blacks, including teachers and administration of the schools, was very influential on Marvin X.  His parents were very conscious from his early childhood that finding a good school for their children  was important. He attended different schools in the first three grades, including McFeely and Prescott in West Oakland, Lincoln and Columbia in Fresno. He ended up at for a short time at St. Patrick’s, a black catholic elementary school in West Oakland.

Because of Red Lining, the school boundaries only included black communities. All black teachers who received respect within the black community had a positive impact on Marvin X’s life. Marvin X’s entire life was segregated, “Nigguhs just did not go across town, no signs, just the way it was.” (X, personal communication, November 17, 2018). Learning in an all black scenario forged a desire for self-reliance and mistrust of anyone white. This can be compared to the experience of current and recent immigrants to the United States.  As stated by Williams, “The results are consistent with findings suggesting that discrimination is negatively associated with adult well-being” (Williams, 2014).  The hatred of white people was developed and nurtured in this environment.

A  weaknesses is that the theory downplays the biological aspects of human behavior.  Furthermore, the theory does not explain why many people observe behavior but do not engage in the behavior (e.g. everyone who grows up in a violent home do not continue the cycle). A further weakness of Social Learning Theory is when it comes to the child’s accountability for his own actions. Putting the focus on how setting influences behavior places more weight on the people and the community that the child is part of, and not enough weight on how the child handles and processes new information. It neglects the child’s accountability and may not go too far in stating that society directs how the individual behaves and acts.

Personal Reflection

This interview helped me to understand the anger and perpetual conflict that rages within Marvin X.  Having grown up with many advances in society and desegregation, it takes effort to relate to the life experiences of Marvin X.  Segregated schools and shopping always appeared to be things from old black and white videos. Marvin X’s life is very unique and intriguing.  A couple of hours did not do him justice so a second interview was scheduled. We focused again on his adolescence and early adulthood periods.  This plays into something a friend of his says, “Communicating and reading Marvin X must be treated like a buffet, i.e.,you have to pace yourself with a little bit of Marvin X at a time.” He can be overwhelming. His students speak of "The Wild Crazy Ride of the Marvin X Experience!"

His life is full of conflict and turmoil. An example is from a recent poem posted on his blog www.blackbirdpressnews.blogspot.com

“We want reparations for every ounce of white blood in North American Americans
rape blood not love blood
vicious rapist white man blood, 1619 blood,
good ship Jesus
Pilgrim
John Hawkins Amazing Grace blood....”

This sums up Marvin X’s beginning point of healing in making right for the past in both social issues and economic as well.  Not much room for compromise when it comes to repaying blacks for the sins of the white power structure.

My expectations were of someone with fire and brimstone coming out of his mouth. It appeared Marvin X has mellowed out with age or I just caught him on mellow days. With a beard, belly, and warm face, he orchestrates his life. He was that friendly man down the street who was smiling and happy most of the time. He had a magnetism that attracted people of all races, nationalities and genders. While his body of work is full of fervor, in person Marvin X was old school with some high levels of machismo bordering on #metoo violations. Many women still reacted in a positive manner when Marvin X whistled and cat called them. He even told the story of one of his students who connected with a woman was checking out books  at his

When Marvin X was asked if he had a chance to live life over again, would you it the same? His reply was that life is a privilege. “How many niggas have time to write a book. I have lived a privileged life. Blessed not to have to work” (X, personal communication, November 17, 2018). He seemed very content with his legacy. He seems at peace with all around him and encourages those around him to practice peace and love, not hate.

Conclusion

Many things can be learned in a variety of environments. Marvin X’s Academy on da Corner is a prime example of alternative learning.  There should be a way of accrediting such important street philosophers.  The diversity of the different groups represented offer a real free speech zone, as Marvin X likes to call his Academy of da Corner.

This interview demonstrated the importance of the social worker to apply multiple theories to their clients.  There is no cookie cutter method of dealing with all clients, treating them as individuals is crucial. Applying the various applicable theories is a great place to start.



References

Baldwin, J. (2001). Giovanni's Room. NY: Penguin.
Bernstein, F. (2011, October 6). Derrick Bell, Law Professor and Rights Advocate, Dies at 80. The New York Times.
Giambrone, A. (2012, Sep 6). Yale sees increase in freshman class diversity. Yale Daily News. Retrieved from https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2012/09/06/yale-sees-increase-in-freshman-class-diversity/
M, D. (2008). How to Recover from the Addiction to White Supremacy (A Pan African 12-Step Model for a Mental Health Peer Group). Oakland: Black Bird Press.
Social Learning Theory | Sociology | Chegg Tutors (2016). [Motion Picture]. Retrieved from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftm3Ohm65zs
Williams, J. (2014). Pathways to Pain: Racial Discrimination and Relationships. Journal of Black Psychology.
Wilson, W. (2012). The Truly Disadvantaged. Chicago: The University of Chicago Press.
X, M. (1972). Black Bird. Oakland: Black Bird Press.